Discussion:
[Crystal-develop] CS, CEL etc. 2.2 then 3.0
Phil Wyett
2014-04-23 08:44:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.

=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===

- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
- Stabilise code base.
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
- Drop old move recorder.

After branch for 2.2 is done...

=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===

- Drop Cg.
- Drop OSS audio.
- Re-enable Java.
- Drop old/unused platforms.
- Add Android support.
- Licenses audit.
- Audit, document, maintain as tier 1, 2 etc. elements of projects.
Improve tracking of project code, state, dependencies etc.
- Audit levels and data resources for licenses and usefulness.
- Review tutorials/test apps and change or add where appropriate.

Changes, additions and modifications may be made. ;-)

Regards

Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
Phil Wyett
2014-04-23 08:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Wyett
Hi all,
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
- Stabilise code base.
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
- Drop old move recorder.
After branch for 2.2 is done...
=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===
- Drop Cg.
- Drop OSS audio.
- Re-enable Java.
- Drop old/unused platforms.
- Add Android support.
- Licenses audit.
- Audit, document, maintain as tier 1, 2 etc. elements of projects.
Improve tracking of project code, state, dependencies etc.
- Audit levels and data resources for licenses and usefulness.
- Review tutorials/test apps and change or add where appropriate.
- Remove unused older/bullet plugin.
- Drop ODE support.

Regards

Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
Jorrit Tyberghein
2014-04-23 11:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
Agreed
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
We can drop Cg if GLSL can cover everything we need. Besides some
reflection shaders I have no idea if this is the case or not.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Stabilise code base.
Can you be more specific about this?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old move recorder.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===
- Drop Cg.
See above.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop OSS audio.
Don't know much about audio but what's the alternative? ALSA?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Re-enable Java.
Agreed if we can find someone who is willing to put effort in this. It is
possible that not much is needed though.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old/unused platforms.
Which old platforms do we still support?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Add Android support.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Licenses audit.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Audit, document, maintain as tier 1, 2 etc. elements of projects.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
Improve tracking of project code, state, dependencies etc.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Audit levels and data resources for licenses and usefulness.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Review tutorials/test apps and change or add where appropriate.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Remove unused older/bullet plugin.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop ODE support.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Regards
Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
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Stefano Angeleri
2014-04-23 12:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Oss would still be needed for bsd and wont change aside going ossv4 but
aren't we using openAl which should cover the API support issues? It's up
to who builds openal to choose which API to target
Post by Jorrit Tyberghein
Post by Phil Wyett
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.
Post by Phil Wyett
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
Agreed
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
We can drop Cg if GLSL can cover everything we need. Besides some
reflection shaders I have no idea if this is the case or not.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Stabilise code base.
Can you be more specific about this?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old move recorder.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===
- Drop Cg.
See above.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop OSS audio.
Don't know much about audio but what's the alternative? ALSA?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Re-enable Java.
Agreed if we can find someone who is willing to put effort in this. It is
possible that not much is needed though.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old/unused platforms.
Which old platforms do we still support?
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Add Android support.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Licenses audit.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Audit, document, maintain as tier 1, 2 etc. elements of projects.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
Improve tracking of project code, state, dependencies etc.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Audit levels and data resources for licenses and usefulness.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
- Review tutorials/test apps and change or add where appropriate.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Remove unused older/bullet plugin.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop ODE support.
Agreed.
Post by Phil Wyett
Regards
Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
_______________________________________________
Crystal-develop mailing list
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crystal-develop
--
Project Manager of Crystal Space and CEL (http://www.crystalspace3d.org/<http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Main_Page>
)
Project Manager of AresEd (https://code.google.com/p/ares/)
Support: https://www.gittip.com/jorritTyb/
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Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
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Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
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_______________________________________________
Crystal-develop mailing list
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Phil Wyett
2014-04-23 13:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefano Angeleri
Oss would still be needed for bsd and wont change aside going ossv4
but aren't we using openAl which should cover the API support issues?
It's up to who builds openal to choose which API to target
True enough for BSD. Do we have any developers/users on BSD?

We should certainly leave this alone for now then.

Regards

Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
Phil Wyett
2014-04-23 13:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Wyett
Post by Phil Wyett
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then
vote on.
Post by Phil Wyett
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
Agreed
Post by Phil Wyett
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
We can drop Cg if GLSL can cover everything we need. Besides some
reflection shaders I have no idea if this is the case or not.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Stabilise code base.
Should have been more specific. As we do with all releases after branch,
is to bugfix and stabilise the branch prior to actual release. :-)

[snip]
Post by Phil Wyett
is possible that not much is needed though.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old/unused platforms.
Which old platforms do we still support?
This also applies to for 2.2 really too.

Drop and remove references to Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000 and XP from
docs etc. We could also maybe looking at cswinlibs refusing to install
on the same platforms.

Regards

Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
}
Matthieu Kraus
2014-04-23 15:47:22 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Wyett [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:59
To: crystal-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Crystal-develop] CS, CEL etc. 2.2 then 3.0
Post by Phil Wyett
Hi all,
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
- Stabilise code base.
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
- Drop old move recorder.
All fine by me, however I wouldn't exactly call it "support" for Cg - deprecate it already in 2.2 and make the support legacy only.
There's no need to write Cg fallbacks given we want to drop it, anyway, and focus should be on porting the missing shader(snippet)s that are still Cg-only (clipping is most important, I think for fur and such there's also some missing).
Post by Phil Wyett
After branch for 2.2 is done...
=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===
- Drop Cg.
Totally for it.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop OSS audio.
As pointed out we're using OpenAL, so use whatever OpenAL has available as backend - accordingly I'm not sure what you want to drop there tbh.
If needed I can test it on BSD - I have a server running FreeBSD (running on an ARMv5 and a custom trunk, though) and can set up a VM if necessary.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Re-enable Java.
Not exactly sure that's a good idea tbh. Bindings easily get outdated and are rarely tested (at least judging from the issues people had with the python bindings in the past) which I doubt gets better with more to maintain.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old/unused platforms.
Fine by me (although I'm not sure what exactly you have in mind there).
Post by Phil Wyett
- Add Android support.
That seems a bit too much for 3.0 imo, not sure what others think.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Licenses audit.
- Audit, document, maintain as tier 1, 2 etc. elements of projects.
Improve tracking of project code, state, dependencies etc.
- Audit levels and data resources for licenses and usefulness.
- Review tutorials/test apps and change or add where appropriate.
- Remove unused older/bullet plugin.
- Drop ODE support.
All fine by me.

Kind regards,
RlyDontKnow
Phil Wyett
2014-04-23 17:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthieu Kraus
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 10:59
Subject: Re: [Crystal-develop] CS, CEL etc. 2.2 then 3.0
Post by Phil Wyett
Hi all,
Below are some core proposals to discuss/argue about then vote on.
=== CS, CEL etc. 2.2 release ===
- Update bullet plugin(s) to be able to use 2.81.
- Continue support of Cg in 2.x series.
- Stabilise code base.
- Move bug tracking back to SF. We need to have solid tracking and
even give anonymous people ability to file them. Unless it is reported
we do not know. If we do not know we cannot fix. A bit of possible
spam we should be able to live with.
- Bring CSEditing into release cycle.
- Drop old move recorder.
All fine by me, however I wouldn't exactly call it "support" for Cg - deprecate it already in 2.2 and make the support legacy only.
There's no need to write Cg fallbacks given we want to drop it, anyway, and focus should be on porting the missing shader(snippet)s that are still Cg-only (clipping is most important, I think for fur and such there's also some missing).
Yes, this sounds like a plan. If you can be part of the effort here it
would be very much appreciated.
Post by Matthieu Kraus
Post by Phil Wyett
After branch for 2.2 is done...
=== CS, CEL etc. 3.0 release development. ===
- Drop Cg.
Totally for it.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop OSS audio.
As pointed out we're using OpenAL, so use whatever OpenAL has available as backend - accordingly I'm not sure what you want to drop there tbh.
If needed I can test it on BSD - I have a server running FreeBSD (running on an ARMv5 and a custom trunk, though) and can set up a VM if necessary.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Re-enable Java.
Not exactly sure that's a good idea tbh. Bindings easily get outdated and are rarely tested (at least judging from the issues people had with the python bindings in the past) which I doubt gets better with more to maintain.
Post by Phil Wyett
- Drop old/unused platforms.
Fine by me (although I'm not sure what exactly you have in mind there).
I did mention this in another reply. We have much reference to now dead
unsupported Windows versions in the docs and maybe code related things
also. Lets clean house. :-)
Post by Matthieu Kraus
Post by Phil Wyett
- Add Android support.
That seems a bit too much for 3.0 imo, not sure what others think.
I added it for a 3.0 to get input and it worked. ;-)

I know Jorrit wants Android. Lets discuss Java and Android as a whole
subject and any time frames. We can also add the whole bindings issue
and deal with it as a group once and for all.

As decisions are made for development and release versions. I will begin
to document them at: http://sourceforge.net/p/crystal/wiki/Planning/

Regards

Phil
--
Phil Wyett
{
GNU Linux User and Developer
Leigh GNU Linux User Group (http://leigh.lug.org.uk)
IRC: philwyett
Twitter: philwyett and leigh_lug
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